Comments on: The Contemporary Relevance of the Anabaptist Faith 4 http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/ A virtual notebook of Christian expression, journey, and study. Tue, 07 Oct 2008 03:51:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Shawn Anthony http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16563 Shawn Anthony Thu, 28 Feb 2008 02:08:48 +0000 http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16563 Thank you, Eric! You are the man! Thank you, Eric! You are the man!

]]> By: Eric http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16562 Eric Thu, 28 Feb 2008 01:57:13 +0000 http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16562 Shawn, For those who are interested, the August 2000 issue of Brethren in Christ History and Life can be ordered for $5.00: Brethren in Christ Historical Society P. O. Box 310 Grantham, PA 17027 Shawn,

For those who are interested, the August 2000 issue of Brethren in Christ History and Life can be ordered for $5.00:

Brethren in Christ Historical Society
P. O. Box 310
Grantham, PA 17027

]]> By: Shawn Anthony http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16536 Shawn Anthony Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:59:39 +0000 http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16536 @Grace: I don't mind your questions at all! In fact, I have been meaning to respond to your questions, but I've been seriously swamped in real-time activity and responsibilities. My apologies for the delayed response! As regards your question: I'm not sure that "Pentecostal" or "Charismatic" would be accurate descriptions of the Anabaptist expression of the Holy Spirit. I take that back - I'm very sure that these descriptions don't work in Anabaptist circles. Those terms are attached to very, very recent movements (a little over 100 years old) that claim a distinctive all their own. I would not be afraid to say that these distinctives would not be regularly featured in an Anabaptist setting. A deep, deep reliance and expression of the Spirit need not be attached to "Pentecostalism" or "Charismatic" movements. So, the Anabaptist expression of the Spirit would be different than that of the Pentecostals and/or Charismatics That doesn't mean, however, that gifts and manifestations of gifts are not a feature of an Anabaptist expression of the Spirit. I think the big difference is what the manifestation of these gifts means ... Pentecostals make certain gifts the evidence of Spirit filled living. I think this is unfortunate; most - if not all - Anabaptists would agree. I too would love to see a deep conversation about the Spirit that does not involve the polemic disagreements over the spiritual gifts. I think we all would do good to focus more attention on the work and action of the Spirit in our lives and communities. Thanks for the questions, Grace! @Grace: I don’t mind your questions at all! In fact, I have been meaning to respond to your questions, but I’ve been seriously swamped in real-time activity and responsibilities. My apologies for the delayed response!

As regards your question:

I’m not sure that “Pentecostal” or “Charismatic” would be accurate descriptions of the Anabaptist expression of the Holy Spirit. I take that back - I’m very sure that these descriptions don’t work in Anabaptist circles. Those terms are attached to very, very recent movements (a little over 100 years old) that claim a distinctive all their own. I would not be afraid to say that these distinctives would not be regularly featured in an Anabaptist setting. A deep, deep reliance and expression of the Spirit need not be attached to “Pentecostalism” or “Charismatic” movements. So, the Anabaptist expression of the Spirit would be different than that of the Pentecostals and/or Charismatics

That doesn’t mean, however, that gifts and manifestations of gifts are not a feature of an Anabaptist expression of the Spirit. I think the big difference is what the manifestation of these gifts means … Pentecostals make certain gifts the evidence of Spirit filled living. I think this is unfortunate; most - if not all - Anabaptists would agree.

I too would love to see a deep conversation about the Spirit that does not involve the polemic disagreements over the spiritual gifts. I think we all would do good to focus more attention on the work and action of the Spirit in our lives and communities.

Thanks for the questions, Grace!

]]> By: grace http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16534 grace Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:35:13 +0000 http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16534 Shawn, A quick question, is pentecostal or charismatic expression a newer aspect of the anabaptist faith? I had dinner with a friend who grew up Mennonite, and she said that her parents were actually forced to leave the church over this issue. I am curious about the extent of focus on the holy spirit within the anabaptist tradition and perhaps if this is understood differently than what it typically expressed in pentecostal circles. One thing that I would really like to see in the emerging/missional conversation is an emphasis on the holy spirit without the division that typically surrounds various manifestations of spiritual gifts. Hope you don't mind my questions. I am curious about anabaptists. Shawn,
A quick question, is pentecostal or charismatic expression a newer aspect of the anabaptist faith?

I had dinner with a friend who grew up Mennonite, and she said that her parents were actually forced to leave the church over this issue.

I am curious about the extent of focus on the holy spirit within the anabaptist tradition and perhaps if this is understood differently than what it typically expressed in pentecostal circles.

One thing that I would really like to see in the emerging/missional conversation is an emphasis on the holy spirit without the division that typically surrounds various manifestations of spiritual gifts.

Hope you don’t mind my questions. I am curious about anabaptists.

]]> By: Shawn Anthony http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16524 Shawn Anthony Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:01:20 +0000 http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16524 @Eric: No. I actually have the article in hard copy, taken from Brethren in Christ History and Life (August 2000). @Eric: No. I actually have the article in hard copy, taken from Brethren in Christ History and Life (August 2000).

]]> By: Eric http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16491 Eric Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:53:37 +0000 http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16491 Shawn, I just found your “The Contemporary Relevance of the Anabaptist Faith” posts and have truly enjoyed the read. Have you posted a link to where the original article can be found? Thanks... Shawn,

I just found your “The Contemporary Relevance of the Anabaptist Faith” posts and have truly enjoyed the read. Have you posted a link to where the original article can be found?

Thanks…

]]> By: grace http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16436 grace Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:59:30 +0000 http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16436 Shawn, I wanted to get back to this all week, but life, work, etc. got in the way. My experience has been that there are charismatics of both types, those who have learned a daily walk with the Spirit and those who want some sort of instant transformation through an altar experience. There is definitely a difference in maturity and fruit between those who live in daily dependence and awareness of the literal presence of the Spirit and those who don't. In the charismatic tradition, although it is suggested, there isn't really an established or consistent model of discipleship for Spirit-led daily living. It's more a factor of individual motivation and perhaps influence of mentors and leaders. Consuming Jesus has a great section about this topic. If you haven't already read it, I'm sure you will enjoy what the author says. Shawn,
I wanted to get back to this all week, but life, work, etc. got in the way.

My experience has been that there are charismatics of both types, those who have learned a daily walk with the Spirit and those who want some sort of instant transformation through an altar experience.

There is definitely a difference in maturity and fruit between those who live in daily dependence and awareness of the literal presence of the Spirit and those who don’t.

In the charismatic tradition, although it is suggested, there isn’t really an established or consistent model of discipleship for Spirit-led daily living. It’s more a factor of individual motivation and perhaps influence of mentors and leaders.

Consuming Jesus has a great section about this topic. If you haven’t already read it, I’m sure you will enjoy what the author says.

]]> By: Shawn Anthony http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16327 Shawn Anthony Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:16:19 +0000 http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16327 Grace - Good morning! I hope all is well! Yes, I agree with what you say re: the charismatic expression as requirement for real incarnational living. Right on! We need the Holy Spirit! I also agree that we must also move beyond the ecstatic features of the Spirit towards an outward missional expression that is obvious in our daily lives. Right on, again! You are echoing Augsburger's thoughts well (see the final three paragraphs of the above post). I think Augsburger's expression of the Holy Spirit actually mirrors Pentecostalism <strong>AND/BUT</strong> goes one step further, beyond the ecstatic nature, and towards the incredible realization that God is literally - literally - present in our lived lives. It is the knowledge of this very real presence - not a quick or instantaneous act of the Spirit - that leads to deep, deep holiness of life. So, Augsburger's expression of the Spirit involves our lived lives and the Spirit, together. Lived-life and Spirit mutually relate and do not overpower one another. Make sense? Basically, this expression says we live and interact daily with a very, very present God. This lived presence urges each of us towards holy living. And why not! Can we comfortably continue to sin while knowing that God is literally in the room? God's presence changes a lot of things in our lived life, at least it should. I think this is an important and unique characteristic of the Anabaptist expression. In other words, Anabaptists are more likely to say the Spirit meets us each morning and ushers us into the literal presence of God, in which we grow in holiness of life. I think this is distinct from a charismatic that makes the church altar into a place where holiness can be instantaneously obtained. Make sense? Grace - Good morning! I hope all is well!

Yes, I agree with what you say re: the charismatic expression as requirement for real incarnational living. Right on! We need the Holy Spirit! I also agree that we must also move beyond the ecstatic features of the Spirit towards an outward missional expression that is obvious in our daily lives. Right on, again!

You are echoing Augsburger’s thoughts well (see the final three paragraphs of the above post). I think Augsburger’s expression of the Holy Spirit actually mirrors Pentecostalism AND/BUT goes one step further, beyond the ecstatic nature, and towards the incredible realization that God is literally - literally - present in our lived lives. It is the knowledge of this very real presence - not a quick or instantaneous act of the Spirit - that leads to deep, deep holiness of life. So, Augsburger’s expression of the Spirit involves our lived lives and the Spirit, together. Lived-life and Spirit mutually relate and do not overpower one another. Make sense? Basically, this expression says we live and interact daily with a very, very present God. This lived presence urges each of us towards holy living. And why not! Can we comfortably continue to sin while knowing that God is literally in the room? God’s presence changes a lot of things in our lived life, at least it should.

I think this is an important and unique characteristic of the Anabaptist expression.

In other words, Anabaptists are more likely to say the Spirit meets us each morning and ushers us into the literal presence of God, in which we grow in holiness of life. I think this is distinct from a charismatic that makes the church altar into a place where holiness can be instantaneously obtained.

Make sense?

]]> By: grace http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16325 grace Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:18:03 +0000 http://www.lofitribe.com/2008/02/17/the-contemporary-relevance-of-the-anabaptist-faith-4/#comment-16325 Shawn, This was an amazing post. It says so much of what I think about, except from a different perspective. I am not very familiar with the Anabaptists, although from what I have read, I share many of their beliefs and values. Also, I would identify myself as charismatic (or perhaps post-charismatic) although I am not sure of the distinctions with pentecostalism. However, as to the content of the post, I also believe that incarnational living requires the ongoing supernatural presence of the Spirit and that charismatic or pentecostal expression must move beyond the ecstatic experience to an outward transformation of missional expression in our daily lives. I hope to see the emerging/missional conversation influenced by the good things of the Holy Spirit, whatever we call them (charismatic, pentecostal, pneumatology, etc). And I hope to see the charismatics influenced by the good things that are coming out of the emerging/missional conversation. Shawn,
This was an amazing post. It says so much of what I think about, except from a different perspective. I am not very familiar with the Anabaptists, although from what I have read, I share many of their beliefs and values. Also, I would identify myself as charismatic (or perhaps post-charismatic) although I am not sure of the distinctions with pentecostalism.

However, as to the content of the post, I also believe that incarnational living requires the ongoing supernatural presence of the Spirit and that charismatic or pentecostal expression must move beyond the ecstatic experience to an outward transformation of missional expression in our daily lives.

I hope to see the emerging/missional conversation influenced by the good things of the Holy Spirit, whatever we call them (charismatic, pentecostal, pneumatology, etc). And I hope to see the charismatics influenced by the good things that are coming out of the emerging/missional conversation.

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