DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> John Crowder Reduces Spiritual Gifts to the Ridiculous

John Crowder Reduces Spiritual Gifts to the Ridiculous

What in the hell - and yes, that’s a fitting prepositional object - is this?!? E.I.E.O! Oey oey oey! Actually, I do believe the above was an event at a church near us that was once attended by two very close friends and leaders (they are a couple) in our own church plant. Thankfully, they are much, much wiser than this!

39 Responses to “John Crowder Reduces Spiritual Gifts to the Ridiculous”

  1. tokethis Says:

    Plenty of discussion of Crowderisms, Crowderology, and Crowderesy at:

    http://johncrowderisaheretic.wordpress.com/

  2. Christine Says:

    Maybe you all should watch how you are judging people. What if you’re wrong, and this man is a man of God? Do you have infallible discernment? I doubt it. Discernment is not only about intellect, but relationship and experience. I study the Bible. I also hear directly from God and rely heavily on my experience of Him. Regardless of who John Crowder is and what he is doing, why do you feel the need to call him out and judge this man that you do not even know? If you need scripture to back up everything, then read Matthew 7.

  3. Prophet Song Says:

    To those defending John Crowder’s behaviour: Pharmakeia” is the Greek word that’s translated “witchcraft” or “sorcery” in Gal. 5:20, i.e. one of the “works of the flesh”. It is also the root word for pharmacy which denotes drugs and the useage of them. The bible warns about this increasing (drugs and sorcery) in the end times. The useage of drug use terms such as “toke”, and mannerisms etc. does not bring glory to God but is a sign of the end time warnings of the bible. The Word of God also speaks of some falling away from the faith and giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (I Timothy 4:1). The Word of God also speaks of the elect possibly being deceived (Mark 13:22). Anytime we get away from the Word of God, or testing things with the Word of God, we can get into error. John Crowder may be very sincere, but I am concerned for him having fallen into deception. Please please please read the Word of God (and not a “watered-down” version of it) and ask the Father to show you His Truth and give you a Love of the Truth (2 Thess 2:10). We also need to pray for those men. This is the only post I will make here. IN JESUS GREAT LOVE & MERCY.

  4. Simple Mann Says:

    @Mimi - You wrote, “then there’s the bit about the foolish things confounding the wise & revealing His truths to little children (or perhaps those with childlike hearts….) perhaps if the body of Yeshua was more about the business of loving as He loves, we’d see this world turned rightside up?????”

    Ah, yes, but our Lord did also say, “‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’”

    He didn’t command us to remain infantile in our understanding. If you have read the epistles from the Apostles to the pastors and members of the early church, I think you will find that they did not take correct doctrine and teaching lightly. Nor did our Lord.

    In Christ,
    Simple Mann

  5. Simple Mann Says:

    @Christine - Jesus did not stumble around like he was drunk or possessed by demons. He didn’t make a bunch of unintelligible noise with his mouth. “He taught as one with authority.” He spoke in parables. There were a few recorded instances where individuals were genuinely overjoyed because they had been healed (either physically or spiritually), but our Lord was not hosting “Holy Ghost house parties” and acting like the world. He often offended and perplexed people, such as the Pharisees or the rich, young ruler, but it was not because of the lunacy of His behavior. It was because of the truth He spoke. There is a big difference between Crowder teaching that you just have to “toke the baby Jesus” and Christ teaching someone like Nicodemus that He must be born again.

    I do not doubt your sincerity any more than I doubt Mr. Crowder’s. Sincerity does not equal truth, however.

    You wrote: “I am NOT a baby Christian and I can tell the difference between the presence of God and the presence of the demonic.”

    I would suggest you do a little more study into the Person of the Holy Spirit to see what Scripture actually teaches about Him, for He is not a Spirit of chaos but of order. What you have to say about Him does not line up with Scripture, but is based on your own experience. That should throw a warning flag up.

    In Christ,
    Simple Mann

  6. Simple Mann Says:

    @Malinda - You might do well to educate yourself a little on the history of heresy in the early church. As Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes, “There is nothing new under the sun.”

    Here’s a couple of links I think you might benefit from:

    http://www.discernment.org/synopsis.htm
    http://rollanscensoredissuesblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/false-prophets-powers-of-addiction-and.html

    In Christ,
    Simple Mann

  7. Simple Mann Says:

    @Malinda - it is obvious that you have a great love and respect for Mr. Crowder. However, to try and draw a comparison between him and Christ, the ministry of Christ and the ministry of Crowder, the persecution of Christ and the persecution of Crowder… well, in my opinion that is outright blasphemy and only reinforces the point in my mind for the need for discernment in the body of believers. I’ve seen and heard enough from him and Dunn to know that what they are doing is not glorifying God. It is gratifying their flesh. If you can’t see that, perhaps you are within the envelope of their very present darkness. I apologize if that sounds harsh, but it is true. May God open your eyes to the glory of His Son. In Jesus Name, amen.

    In Christ,
    Simple Mann

  8. Christine Says:

    Malinda, do not apologize for sticking up for this beloved man of God. How can one of these people basically calling John an instrument of the devil say that your tone is “threatening” because you point out their judgement. This is exactly what infuriated Jesus about the Pharisees. The judgement flowed through them, yet they did not know God. Remember, they called Jesus a blasphemer for being “unconventional” and healing the sick. You cannot put the Holy Spirit in a box and expect Him to conform to that. My God is HUGE!!!!!! I simply trust in my discernment when I attend these kinds of meetings. I am NOT a baby Christian and I can tell the difference between the presence of God and the presence of the demonic. How sad it is that all of you feel that your are justified in your closed-minded judgements of this simple man of God. I ask the Lord for more of His presence. We are meant to experience his presence, from “glory to glory,” and I want it! If the rest of you are satisfied with intellectualism, than how sad for you. I pray that the Holy Spirit knocks you on your feet and shows you the unspeakable joy that John is trying to convey.

  9. Christine Says:

    I just saw John Crowder last night. He is an anointed man. The Holy Spirit was running rampant in that place. The Spirit works through people in unconventional and unpredictable ways. In the case of John, coming from a past of drug abuse,it only makes sense that the Spirit would show up in his life and show him true ecstasy that comes only from Him. I walked out of that place with an overwhelming, unspeakable joy. I bless John and his ministry, and he has and will bring thousands of people to Jesus with his love and joy.

  10. Malinda Says:

    Exactly Mimi.

    Mike, I never intended to play the “touch not the Lord’s anointed card.” Perhaps I reacted too hastily to a verbal crucifixion of a man I know and love dearly. For that, I apologize.

    I was, however, alluding to the account of when Jesus was accused of doing His works by the hand of the devil, to which He responded that doing so was the unpardonable sin. There’s a fine line between judgment and discernment, and when we perceive to decipher a man’s motives by what we think we understand about the Holy Spirit, we better be careful what comes out of our mouth. It is not what goes into a man that defiles, but what comes out, for out of the mouth, the heart speaks.

    In a world where darkness gets even darker and chaos gets even more chaotic, it is truly the fullness of joy in His presence that will sustain us.

  11. Mimi Says:

    I wonder what a scriptural study of the verse that states that Jesus was anointed with joy above all of His companions might turn up? Just a thought :) That surely would be a lot of joy. I mean I’ve seen football fans, sober ones, display a fair amount of hilarity when their team wins, so Jesus has even more joy that that, and supposedly the angels throw a party when someone comes into the kingdom, and He Who sits in heaven laughs….oh and in His presence is fullness of joy & at His right hand are pleasures evermore and Jesus sits at His right hand. then there’s that business about the joy of the Lord being our strength. Just wonder what God had in mind when He said all these things???? hmmmm. oh yes. then there’s the bit about the foolish things confounding the wise & revealing His truths to little children (or perhaps those with childlike hearts….) perhaps if the body of Yeshua was more about the business of loving as He loves, we’d see this world turned rightside up????? shabba

  12. Mandy Says:

    Yes I was looking up Acts 2. Those believers were speaking of God’s mighty works in languages the hearers could understand, they glorified God. Ever seen a drunk do that? Theres no drunk in the spirit there. Yet it seems people took their lead from the mockers, lots promoted the idea and so we now have had the “heavenly bar-tenders” rolling out the barrels, the drunken glory parties and weird behaviour. If getting the “experience” is all important , we might just as well smoke the glory. Then just throw out the reverance so as to be relevant and what have we got? Mocking. I am glad the believers in Acts 2 glorified God . What a contrast.
    . Lets read the bible! Be Very Blessed.

  13. John Says:

    Hello Melinda,

    Well, if you know John Crowder, then you know that what he is teaching and releasing is nothing short of unbiblical and defiled, along with new age at its center. God will never reduce Himself to looking like or acting like the world. It just doesn’t happen. When John uses phrases like “Tokin the ghost” it shows that he has no fear of the Lord or reverance for His holiness.
    Besides, you cannot find in Scripture where God gets people drunk in the Holy Ghost. It is not there. Acts does not even mean what people think it means, Peter was talking about different languages and because of the number of them being spoken at once, it sounded like they were drunk, The point is, they were not! Every reference is pointing to being filled with the Holy Spirit in person or upon a person, not a drunken affect.
    God does not relate with something He calls debauchery and sin, period!
    Oh sure, you can use the scripture to say whatever you want it to say, but the fact of the matter is, in the original context it does not mean to look or act drunk or high. In fact, there is more scripture that says we should remain sober minded than there is in regards to the Spirit of God overwhelming someone like you say.

  14. Shawn Says:

    @We: Yeah … sometimes the folks are actually drunk before noon. The Acts story you cite is not a license to approve - or join in with - everything “spiritual” that comes down the pike. We are also called to test the spirits …

  15. We Says:

    I hope this took place at night, otherwise the church of tradition might accuse this guy of being drunk before noon.

    Cheers though,

  16. Mike Morrell Says:

    While I can certainly appreciate your heart, Malinda (this is Mike, the guy who interviewed him on my blog), your tone sounds kind of threatening - not unlike when Benny Hinn cursed Hank Hanegraaff for speaking against him in the 1990s. We all need to raise the level of discourse here - charismatics, non-charismatics, and cautious charismatics alike. While I agree that Shawn is a bit too quick on the draw here, I think ominously warning about spiritual ‘burning’ has a similar effect. We Spirit-filled types can do better than playing the ‘touch not the Lord’s anointed’ card, methinks.

  17. Malinda Says:

    You people are terribly judgmental. You presume to judge a man and the motive of his intent based upon a video you think you understand. Do you not know that in God’s presence there is fullness of joy, where at times it seems one is completely incapacitated in the Father’s love? John Crowder lives in the the Lord’s presence, and as one who knows him and his family intimately, I’d be careful how you place your hand in the kettle. It may get burned.

  18. D Says:

    We are supernatural already because we belong to God. He made us in his image…isn’t that enough. We are saved through God’s grace once we believed in his son Jesus! Amen! Mariah you are so smart!
    Keep running and take a few friends with you.

  19. My question is this-why do you,Shawn,want supernatural events and visitations?I am a christian.I am absolutely horrified at what is being called a work of the Holy Spirit.People in my church are embracing the “anointing”coming out of the Lakeland Revival.Explain to me why Jesus is just not enough?The mantra I keep hearing is “supernatural” experience the “supernatural”.Welcome to the New Age Church Shawn.I am running as fast as I can away from this mess.

  20. pilar Says:

    This men is mocking the most High Holy God. It is sad to see Christian people to be deceived by a charlatan.

  21. Shawn Says:

    Isaiah 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD, “Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.

    A wise theology professor once told me, “If you base your experience of God upon your experiences alone, then you will be limited to your experience.”

    A conversion based upon experience alone, seems to me to be a very thin foundation. Reason should be involved too, or you’ll simply be reduced to a drunk taken with mountaintop wine.

  22. jim Says:

    Funny thing… People are getting healed, born again, and experiencing God. Not sure that the delivery is as critical as the results - No?

  23. Shawn Says:

    @Will: That’s just it, bro. I too long for deep, deep moves of Spirit. I long for authentic supernatural events and visitations. I also think God is up to way more than we think, or even might be comfortable with, but there has to be content there for us to be edified by, and it’ll not be separated from important aspects of tradition, or doctrine, or a singular focus upon Jesus Christ.

    Plus, strange, weird gutturals are not so important.

    But I hear you, loud and clear, bro.

  24. Will Says:

    You know, I watch videos of this guy or other folks on the fringes of the Pentecostal / Charismatic movement and find myself torn.

    On one hand, I do think God is up to more than we can think or fathom and I want to be open to receive whatever he’s got for me - even if it’s out of my own comfort zone, but at the same time wondering if it’s possible to be open to the fullness of God without being kooky and weird.

    And then, for those us as who find ourselves within the Charismatic movement, it’s always frustrating to be linked together with folks like this. I don’t know any more of John Crowder or his ministry and theology than this video and occasional name blurbs, but still, this is ridiculous.

  25. pat holliday Says:

    On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 11:19 PM, pat holliday wrote:

    Hello Dear Ones;
    This one’s real Shocker. If I were you, I’d stay away from these demonic meetings and I’d certainly protect the children.You might get an “impartation” of something that’s hard to get rid of. Cover yourself with the blood of Jesus and pray before reading the article.
    Yes, I do encourage you to forward these articles. How will they know unless a preacher is sent?
    You’ll find new article here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/3482527/Todd-Bentley-John-Crowder-AFTERGLOW-Summer-Solstice-Witchcraft-wizards-
    Blessings and do be in prayer from me, family and team. We are all covered by the blood of Jesus and the Fire of the Holy Ghost.

    Todd Bentley & John crowder HIGH ON JESUS? Star gate openers and STARWALKERS TO THIRD HEAVENs~ Secrets of the ascended masters ~angels of destruction, TOWER TO HEAVEN, LADDER TO GOD, STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN ~ and cocaine jesus
    http://www.patholliday.com/ebooks.php
    AFTERGLOW getting high on Jesus
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkBLnmdJ2SY
    Summer Solstice Witchcraft wizards
    ~soul snatchers & soul scalpers Bentley and Chowder want disconnect you from the Jesus of the Bible and link you to the Awakened Beings they are calling angels who they say are from the divine realm existing in the Third Heaven. They want to take you through an occultist wormhole, the sorceries, long sought “Stargate of the gods.” Their witchcraft experiences want to teach you about the powerful new “electrical energies” bathing your spirits with the anointing of the Ascended Masters powers of the New Age.

  26. Shawn Says:

    Hey, Jesse. Yeah, it really is self-explanatory. It never fails, folk like this always have a bunch of stuff for sale that they tote around with them. The early American traveling Bible salesman is alive and well … and their sales pitch has not changed at all.

  27. Wow. All I can say is, wow.

    I did a quick search for John Crowder and found his website - The New Mystics (http://www.thenewmystics.org/).

    Well that explains a whole lot right there.

  28. Shawn Says:

    @Justin: You are right. It would be much more edifying to actually look at the Scriptures re: this sort of thing, rather than just discount it and assume everyone else already knows what is wrong with it.

    I’d point to the Letters to Corinth, for starters. I think the warnings concerning corporate spiritual practices, order, the edifying value of the utterances - or gibberish - we speak, and chaos are all very relevant in this situation. So, the Corinth letters - in their entirety - would be a good place to start. 1 Cor 14 is a direct shot at this new “revival.” Colossians is another letter that would be very relevant, as that church too was led astray by a brand of mysticism that promoted the roles of angelic beings to a level that should have only been occupied by Christ. The Colossians became fixated on angelic beings, to the dismay of the Apostle Paul. Crowder and the like seem to be chasing and communicating regularly with “angelic beings.” I think we all should be very careful when we bring beings other than Christ into our daily practice. In fact, it should not be done at all! Crowder, in the above video (around 2:25), actually says, right after he talks about the “two fat friar tuck angels that are pulling on his arms and keeping him drunk in the spirit,” the following: “I mean we think we get along … Oh, oh let’s just focus on Jesus, don’t talk about the angels …” He is actually telling us we need to focus on more than just Christ!!! That is the only red flag one needs, though there are plenty more being flown here! Crowder says that we need to focus on angels and not just Jesus. He saying that we need more than Christ. He’s saying we need to NOT just focus on Christ, but angels too! That’s pretty close to the Colossian heresy. So, I think a good read of the Colossian and Corinthian letters will reveal all that’s wrong with what Crowder and the like are up too. He also, around 4:30, totally discards thinking by tossing out “tradition,” “theology,” and “doctrine.” I mean, if all of these things are tossed, by what do you even test this spirit by? And we are called to test the spirits (1 John 4:1-6).

    Beyond the Scriptural warnings about practices like this, I can;t help but just to be personally annoyed by his “stage antics.” I honestly have no idea how anyone can sit through that show. Seriously. The noises he makes are straight up annoying. “oi … oi … oi!” Is that what he calls speaking in tongues? What a horrible attempt to pull off a real and otherwise beautiful spiritual gift. This guy is just a charlatan. I’m sure Pentecostals and mature Charismatics want nothing to do with him. He’s just trying to imitate what real Pentecostals and Charismatics actually have. I know many of them, and they aren’t like this at all.

  29. Justin Says:

    It would probably do us all some good to find out exactly why this is “wrong” (if in fact we find that it is). I’m very interested in the Biblical backing they have for this ministry. The only verse I’ve seen them promote is 2 Cor 2:13 which was taken horribly out of context.

  30. Shawn Says:

    @Glenn: Yep. I could use one of those weight loss miracles too! LOL!

    @Mike: Yeah. I caught your post. I’m a regular reader, bro! I must say though, no amount of explaining or interviewing from this guy would make what I’m looking at in the above video better. It’s straight up ridiculous. It speaks for itself. And sometime you just can’t dress ugly up and make it pretty. That’s bad stuff, plain and simple.

  31. Mike Morrell Says:

    Hey Shawn, have you seen my interviews with him this week? My guess is you have. :) If not, go here and scroll to the bottom for a list of most of the recent posts we’ve been tag-teaming.

    I’m sorry I never finished commenting on your “Why We’re Not Emergent” thread…I had a busy weekend with someone coming to share at our house church. I’ll get back to that post ASAP!

  32. glenn Says:

    amazing stuff shawn…what I don’t understand is how I missed him when he co-located to Ireland! It’s not like we’re that big a country. I’m so disappointed…and I could have done with losing a few pounds too.

  33. Wes Says:

    wow…thats all I’ve got to say, wow.

  34. Shawn Says:

    Chris - Thank you, bro! “Life,” “New Life,” I can’t keep up with the variations. So, thank you for the correction!

    Beyond that moniker snafu, I am shocked at what I see going on in that church. Wow! You can’t say that you didn’t warn me!

  35. Chris Says:

    That’s “Life Center” not “New Life Center”. http://www.lcmi.org

  36. Shawn Says:

    In fact, the church he is speaking at is New Life Center in Harrisburg. Here’s another YouTube Link of John Crowder doing it, as he says, “The High Way!” Yep. He looks high all right!

  37. Shawn Says:

    Hey, guys. Apparently, this guy is a sought after conference speaker for charismatic groups. The above video is a shot of him at a very real church who gathered to hear him “speak.” If you search You Tube, you’ll find a lot more clips of him. He’s for real.

  38. Justin Says:

    I’ve never seen anything like this in my life.

  39. I’ve never heard of this guy before. Is he drunk?

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